- March 6, 2017 at 8:06 pm #4913mattiejasKeymaster
Apologies for being a offline for the last few days, but I felt like taking a short break in order to sort out my thoughts.
I felt that the last crew party was quite unpleasant at times (although there were also many pleasant moments!!). There was some totally unnecessary and quite annoying crew killing that destroyed the vibe for no reason, and also some constant negativity from some people that brought the mood down for no reason. I have been wondering what to do about this.
First of all, I absolutely don’t want to name anyone, and I’d like nobody to name any names here in this thread whatsoever, because that’s not constructive at all. Please, don’t name anyone (including yourself!). I’ll use my moderator rights and edit such posts. Instead, I’d like to have an open discussion about how we can jointly tackle this.
I created this crew to create a pleasant and welcome place free of harassment, and I hope this is what everyone wants. I hope we can keep it this way by all of us being watchful, of ourselves, and of others. So, if you feel that someone is acting abusively or is harassing anyone or the group for no reason, I’d prefer if you’d spoke with them directly, privately. I have done so already on many occasions, but I think this is no longer enough, and that this needs a stronger group effort. Do you think we can do this jointly as a group?
Anyway, I’m interested in hearing the thoughts from other people on this. Again, please no names here. I think it’s more helpful to keep it purely abstract.March 6, 2017 at 11:01 pm #4916RoofstoneParticipant
Well as far as crew killing goes I think we need to be more direct in our approach. At least us officers need to tell them immediately that it is not cool. It is very much the antithesis to our crew.
As for negativity it is a bit rougher. A honest heart to heart is obviously a good first step in my mind.
As for what we as a group can do? Well we all need to be encouraging and positive, like we always are. Be towards others as you want them to be towards you and so on. Set a good example, don’t encourage mindless slaughter and other such behavior, at least in a crew setting.
At least from the top of my head these are some good first steps to take.March 7, 2017 at 1:06 am #4921MadRedParticipant
Good topic actually. I’m pretty sure everyone knows themselves so no need for naming or pointing fingers at all. But this topic might open a pandoras box to be honest and might lead to finger pointing nonetheless. Even if that happens, I believe we are all mature enough and can handle it with cool heads. That being said, I will point myself and give some examples from my own actions when I have to as long as I follow this thread.
I have a few points and a few suggestions. Nothing personal and totally professional. Which I think our friends will agree with me. I totally respect those who don’t agree of course.
1- There is just way too much chatter on discord.
I mean obviously discord is designed for chatting among friends but too much of anything is never really good. No need for every detail in game to be spoken out loud. There is just too much information and chatter going on sometimes and chat is just being dominated by a few. I’d say we all keep the chat to a minimum as much as we can.
2- More channels could be usefull.
Another suggestion I would bring is that we can have more channels on discord. For various activities. If a person is looking for Heisting, he could join “Heist Channel”. “Freemode channel”, “Biker Stuff Channel”, “Jobs Channel”, “Chatterbox channel” ect. Maybe we could even give all heists a different channel if it’s possible I don’t know. Like “Pacific Standard Channel” ect. Why not set up a “Looking for help channel” for people who need help with their deliveries/sales ect.
3- Gotta be realistic. Non-aggressive actions can’t just be the only things considered Ethical in GTA.
Lets face it. It’s GTA. There’s gonna be bullets and dead bodies. Fast cars and races. Helicopters and Skydiving and so on… The community in this game in general is chaotic at best. Really toxic at times too. A guy gets home after a stressfull and sh*tty day and wants to let off some steam. If that person chooses racing to de-charge himself and lower his stress levels, we should respect that. Shooting other people like a maniac to unlock weapon skins is a different way to let off steam as well. But it is a “way” nonetheless. I myself just can’t accept being labeled as a maniac and impulsive and a non-ethical person just because I prefer blood, bullets and wrath of god to peaceful non-contact racing with non-custom vehicles or doing passive mode city sightseeing… I shoot and I shoot to kill when I need to de-charge after a stressfull day sometimes and that’s it. If the crew decides to put a rule to outlaw the killing of crewmates at any time, then I fully support it and endorse it. But noone can expect me to enforce that rule to non-crew members. Because there are 3 reasons for me to play this game. One is customization of vehicles. Second is shooting. Third is meeting new people and making friends.
That comment about me being labeled as a maniac and impulsive is not about your discussion on making me a commissioner btw. I’m talking in general and I’m just letting everyone know that I am not actually agressive for real. I do what I do NOT to “win” or “beat others” or “overpower people.” I do it for the sake of fighting the fight if you catch my meaning. Being engaged in a gunfight gives me joy to sum it up.
Killing people in this game doesn’t have to mean that you are some kinda guy who sh*ts on co-workers or someone who goes around reporting other people to senior management for their mistakes and revels in the suffering of others. I m personally getting tired of hearing “oh thats not really ethical dude!” to which I reply: It’s GTA! You see a helicopter on your tail while you are making a delivery? Blast it all the way to hell first and after that; it is completely up to you to apologize if he says he was friendly. That would be the ethical behaviour on your part and you can actually make a friend there.
4- Not everything is a competition.
I have always been good at gun games. I don’t really get mad at others when I loose a gunfight though. I learned the trick to not getting mad when I was playing counter-strike with my friends in primary school. The trick is to do the fight just for the sake of fighting. Not just winning or beating others or overpowering them. Then you won’t feel bad when you loose and won’t get mad. Also you won’t be full of pride when you win either and walk around with a stick up your ass. Period.
Giving you an example: If I m sniping people from a certain location and playing smart and sneaky like, that’s because I prefer being tactical at that point. Not because I m a sadistic maniac who takes delight in suffering of others. If a person is getting mad at me for being good in a gunfight and not just doing the same thing everyone else is doing, well then that’s their problem. You can remove gunfight and place racing here if you want. Same outcome. Don’t race to win but race for the sake of driving with friends. Try to feel joy when a “friend” wins instead of you. Now that would be some real ethical behaviour wouldn’t it?
5- People don’t change while playing a computer game.
We just can’t expect people to change as soon as they join the crew. Applying to the rules and following them is one thing. But to teach people when to start talking and when to stop? To teach people that doing more for others than you do for yourself? We ain’t gonna succeed in that while playing a violent computer game where being selfish actually pays off more…
So my suggestion directly to my friend Mattiejas is to be more strict and if needed, suspend people from discord, from crew. Demote or whatnot. Kick permenantly if you have to. We just can’t fix everything and we certainly can’t change people. Not here man.
Peace!March 7, 2017 at 5:22 pm #4927mathilyaParticipant
Whoah. Looks like MadRed won an annual competition on longest post 😛
I have read the whole post and actually, I have no idea how am I supposed to refer to it. To begin with, I have to agree with Roof – being an example of titular crew altitude can affect others. And this rule is what we should stick to. But MadRed’s post was so long and he probably spent a long time writing it, so I will just try to comment it as good as my English skills allow me to do it.
Ad. 1: Well, here is my opinion about Discord chat – all I recommend is to avoid writing any important messages on it. It’s not a problem, if someone uses speech synthesizer – in this case chances of missing this message are smaller. Better use ingame chat, as no one will miss anything.
Ad. 2: I like the idea with splitting channels on heists, freemodes etc. Yes, I know that sometimes there are too many people talking at the same time, but don’t forget, that we are here not only to play – also discuss, share opinions and so on.
Ad. 3: … I will abstain from commenting this. This topic is very amibiguous. All I can say that there are some things I agree with MadRed (like self-defence when delivering).
Ad. 4: I will try to be straight on this one. I generally strongly dislike killing other people in this game, deathmatches are the only exception. For sure, I hate when I see big red “Wasted” text on my screen and sometimes I am getting nervous btu still, trust me or not, I am still convinced that this is only the game and there is nothing to worry about. We are playing the playlists for fun and a slight hue of rivalry. Of course, winning a playlist is always nice but this is not the point. On the other side though, I can understand people who do their best in order to win, e.g. a race. Example – I guess there is more fun when battling for top positions rather than traipse at the back 😛 We can still enable GTA mode but IMHO, recent attempts demonstrated that we are not controlling the chaos in the way everyone would be satisfied.
Ad. 5: I don’t think that being selfish pays off more.
I am not going to point on myself – I can criticise myself and I believe that if someone has some objetions on me, that person is mature enough to talk to me in person and point out everything. A proper discussion always helps in understanding each other.
Concluding, it’s impossible to make everything perfect. And I really hope that we will get lots of responses on this topic, as I think that data we could receive would be as important as your surveys. As I said before, I believe we are all mature enough not to fingerpoint at anyone, so no Pandora box would be opened.
Took me more than hour to write it. Hope I expressed my opinion clearly.March 7, 2017 at 5:43 pm #4929GloozyParticipant
First of all, I have to say that I feel a little lack of arguments because Roof and Madred have mentioned three essential things that I share (although I have not been much present in recent weeks, for the reason that you know) :
1 – we all need to be encouraging and positive,
2 – There are some people who talk too much to complain during events (like the game settings that are chosen by the boss)
3 – be more strict and if needed, suspend people from discord, from crew.
There are rules in this crew which are the only reason I chose to be part of it.
I apply them and I respect them, for the good of all.
Those who do not repect them must leave (or be suspended) or learn to respect them absolutely (This aspect is certainly a bit rough, but in any organization, sanction is sometimes the only solution to safeguard a group)March 7, 2017 at 7:45 pm #4931KuroAkameParticipant
We are a group we can help each other I think there’s no need to insult each other we have better days and worse days on the events we are here to have fun however I can be quiet in calls but I know whats happening.
Before I joined this crew I’ve been playing all alone doing heists with randoms and stuff like that I just want you guys to be together and have fun!
If ppl dont like it they way you are and stuff like that I think they need to respect each one like as I meant before we are a group its soposed to help each other.
Just keep in mind we have good days and bad days nobody is perfect neither I.
Hope this goes well in the future
-KuroAkameMarch 8, 2017 at 7:33 pm #4992mattiejasKeymaster
Enormous thanks to everyone for sharing opinions here, on a rather contentious topic, and for keeping it so mature.
And especially thanks to madred and mathilya for the very long yet careful balanced write-ups. Kuro also makes the excellent point that sometimes people just have a bad day; we can be kind and understanding of this. As for discord channels, actually we have 4 of them, and yeah we could name them but I think that’s not necessary; maybe making a habit of switching channels if you want a bit more peace or do something separate in a smaller group is enough.
I don’t feel I need to add anything to what has been said except to say thanks to all who have responded so far!
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